Life Liberty and the Pursuit
Welcome to the Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit podcast. Come join Eric and Matt who are freedom-loving, meat-eating, gun-shooting American guys as they discuss a broad spectrum of topics ranging from States' rights, culture, and the 2nd Amendment to scotch, bourbon, and cigars. Eric & Matt are both former US Army combat veterans who served together while deployed to Iraq during OIF III. Eric is most notable for his YouTube channel Iraqveteran8888 which has over 2.75 million subscribers currently as well as his outspoken and no-compromise stance regarding the 2nd amendment. Matt, founded Ballistic Ink, a branding and merchandising company that serviced 2A content creators and the firearms industry. He also is a partner of Alliance jiujitsu Roswell located in Roswell GA and trains daily and competes regularly. He is very passionate about the 2nd amendment and freedom. Come along for the ride!
Life Liberty and the Pursuit
LLP Ep129: Sig Sauer's Safety Crisis
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A U.S. airman's death from an unintended SIG Sauer M-18 discharge has thrust a long-simmering controversy into the spotlight. For years, SIG's P320 platform—which includes the military's M17 and M18 pistols—has faced accusations of firing when they shouldn't, leaving a trail of injuries across police departments and military units nationwide.
Eric and Matt examine the mechanics behind these dangerous malfunctions, explaining how a slightly depressed trigger combined with kinetic force can cause the striker to fall without warning. What's particularly troubling is SIG's apparent knowledge of the issue. As Eric reveals, "One of the engineers at SIG told me that they know the problem, they know the fix, but it's kind of difficult to know which guns are affected."
The stakes couldn't be higher. With billions in military contracts on the line, SIG faces an impossible calculation: recall thousands of pistols or continue to deflect blame while risking more injuries or deaths. For military personnel who don't have the luxury of choosing their sidearm, this corporate risk analysis becomes a matter of life and death.
Between serious discussions, the hosts lighten the mood with a taste test of viral Dubai chocolate and reflections on firearms innovation. They emphasize that while all new designs face challenges, the difference lies in how companies respond—fix the problems transparently or prioritize profits over safety.
Whether you're a firearms enthusiast, military member, or concerned citizen, this episode offers crucial insights into a controversy that raises profound questions about corporate responsibility, military procurement, and the trust we place in the tools designed to protect us. Have you experienced issues with your SIG? Should manufacturers be held to a higher standard when lives are at stake?
Welcome back everybody. This is Eric and Matt, and this is Life, liberty and the Pursuit, your beacon of freedom and the American way of life. Tune in every Monday for a new episode as we dive into the world of liberty and what makes our country great. And welcome back everybody. This is Eric and Matt, here with LLP. I hope you've all had a great week. You're home, for all things normal in a world of debauchery, in a world gone mad. Here we are, your beacon of freedom in this crazy little rude world we live in.
Speaker 2:Yes, if they could hear us like 30 seconds before the mics go. Live man, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Sometimes I wonder if we should just record, like the hour leading up to it and just not even record a normal show, because that might be actually more damn entertaining.
Speaker 2:Yeah, be the podcast right there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it'd be one doozy of a podcast today's show. Uh, we're going to focus primarily on sig. Okay, and and look, I know what people are thinking. You know this is not some attempt to bash anybody or anything, but we have questions. I think a lot of people the internet in general. They have their pitchforks and torches out right now.
Speaker 1:We had an airman that unfortunately had an M-18 discharge when it was not supposed to and he died. That sucks, that's no good. Of course we hate to see these kind of things happen. There's a certain level of acceptance that soldiers and airmen and anyone who's in the military has to have some form of acceptance that training accidents can and will occur and you know what it's part of the job is the accepted risk that sometimes things happen and that's just. That's the fact of it.
Speaker 1:Now, was this just a fact of?
Speaker 1:Oh, something just happened, it was a fluke incident, or is there something a little bit more to this situation that meets the eye and I think we all know, based on what people have been saying in the past about SIG and some of the well-known and well-documented cases of these guns discharging when they're not wanted to discharge has been kind of a well-known and well-documented fact. Now I've talked to SIG here and there. One of the engineers from SIG I'm not going to say his name because I certainly don't want to get him any trouble with his, with his employer, okay, yes, of course, obviously not. But one of the engineers at sig told me that they, they know the problem, they know the fix, but that that is kind of difficult to know which guns are affected and which ones aren't I can see that because there's so many of them out out in the wild, um, because it not only is not m17s and 18s is also like 320s all right, so it's all the same basic mechanism, correct in terms of the way they work.
Speaker 1:So, in case you guys don't know how more or or less how these pistols not necessarily how they work, but one of the big sort of selling points and interesting things about these guns what it actually is, it's what's called a fire control unit.
Speaker 1:Okay, so the serial numbered portion on this gun is actually just a removable sort of trigger chassis, okay, and that is the serialized portion of the gun that is for the purposes of transferring and calling it a firearm. It is actually just this trigger housing assembly. I'll show you real quick. Okay, so we just bring this lever down. Now. This is a Wilson Combat grip frame assembly, okay, that I added on here, but I'm not going to pull the whole thing apart, but it's basically just this assembly right here and if you look through the window, you can see the serial number and there's a micro-stamped sort of code that you can scan. That'll give you all sorts of information, of course, the model of the gun and the serial number of the firearm. This is a Wilson combat grip module and this is my stock M17 pistol direct from SIG.
Speaker 1:Now, what problem are these guns experiencing. Well, there's been some random tests and there's been some well-documented type of situations. But I am going to, in the future, go out on the range and live with live ammunition. I guarantee you that I can replicate what is going on with these guns. And it's not just me, it's other people that have kind of done a little bit of playing around and figured out how to replicate the issue when the trigger is slightly depressed, just a bit. Okay if the, if the trigger is slightly depressed and the gun experiences some sort of kinetic force, such as being dropped or something to that effect. Or let's say the pistol drops like this and it hits in this manner. Okay, if it hits, let's just say, where the slide is still forced into battery. Right, if the pistol hits on the back part of the, the grip, uh, safety area, or let's just say the part of the frame, then the pistol could theoretically shift out of battery, which would prevent the pistol from discharging if there were some failure in the mechanism. I think most of the situations where these pistols are being dropped and going off involve the pistol landing on the actual slide and the kinetic energy slightly depressing that trigger and it doesn't take much force in just the right spot to make the striker fall. Okay, and that's a very unsafe situation.
Speaker 1:Now, is that to say that just because somebody has an M17 or M18 strapped on their hip that it's dangerous and they're going to kill themselves with it? No, these are extremely isolated situations that happen under apparently extremely specific circumstances. How many thousands of these guns are out there? Thousands, right. How many do you actually see hurting people? Now the accepted answer, matt, should be that no gun should discharge when you don't want it to Correct. Of course, I understand where people are coming from. Okay, I'm not trying to defend SIG. I'm not trying to defend this gun design. I like this gun design. I love the M17. This is one of my favorite handguns. It has forced me to question whether or not I really trust this gun to carry my battle belt or whether or not I'm gonna switch back to my glock 19x, which I think we know what the answer is there at this point.
Speaker 2:Well, you know you have to ask yourself how many. So when you look at the grand scheme of things in the big picture, this only came to light mainly because the police forces were using this firearm and they were experiencing nds. And there are a lot of reports, like you know guns going off in the holster, guns going off in the holster at training, guns going off in the holster while they're in their briefing room and, like you know, they're sitting down in this. It's hitting. But they all had the same common denominator they were all SIG how many of those-?
Speaker 1:And they were all in holsters Exactly.
Speaker 2:Now they started saying, oh, that's a customized holster like this, that's not the right holster for that. It shouldn't really matter, because the trigger is covered. There was no action on the trigger, right? But now look back and say many nds did you see reported with glocks, like they didn't happen. They didn't exist because the problem didn't exist, right, they only happen with sigs, and I mean I'm I'm not a sig fan boy, I don't shoot sig, but they are known as a premium firearm. And then you have to ask yourself the reports were there, it happened with the police and then it started happening in the military.
Speaker 2:And then now we have the airman that unfortunately was shot in the chest with his own firearm while it was sitting on the shelf. Who is going to take care of that airman's family? Because that's not with all of the stuff that sig has been putting out and, unfortunately, with us being in the military previously, we know that they're. The sgli is probably going to cover some of that, but in my opinion that's something that one should have never happened. That family should be taken care of for the rest of their life because that's something. He was using a weapon that was issued by the military. He had no choice. It's not like you have a choice in the matter of what you, what you carry, what you're issued unless you're like jay sock or whatever and those guys can kind of pick and choose what they want and truthfully, those guys can probably break anything eventually, if you give enough time.
Speaker 2:But, you know, given the circumstances, you know, think of all the police, the policemen and policewomen. They got shot in the leg Like they're shooting themselves in the leg. You know, they might have ruined their careers. And Sig is denying no, it's not us. Well, now the cat's out of the bag. All right, something has to be done, as far as you know, compensating the people that were injured, whether they're shot themselves in the leg, whether you know, unfortunately, the airmen that that died. So what are the next steps now? Because now you have a firearms company that has, you know, tens of thousands of firearms out in the, out in the wild. I think the Marine Corps alone ordered like 50,000. Well, so the Marine, the, the military, is a little bit of an easier fix because they can just collect it. It's the civilian side. Yeah, that is going to be the the problem, because, again, on the military side there's no liability as far as what the military does, but on the civilian side there's a ton of liability.
Speaker 1:And, generally speaking, the one good thing that they have going for them is that generally most people use a military issue holster. So if the holster is causing some depressing of the trigger or some sort of inducing a malfunction, somehow they can narrow that down. Okay, maybe it's the holster design that's causing it. Of course we know the gun is the culprit. Because the gun is the culprit, I mean, at the end of the day, if a gun goes off unintentionally and it's not related to ammo or not related to some faulty component, that maybe it just failed, in that, you know, any component can fail once in a blue moon. Right, have I broken a striker on a Glock before? Yes, I have. Did it cause the gun to uncontrollably go off? No, it just means the striker broke. It happens. It's a consumable part and it takes mere minutes, if not even a minute. I could change it out in 60 seconds. It's a super easy component to just swap back out and you're back to the races. We're not talking about a flat tire here, okay. We're talking about something you know. We're talking about a bolt in the engine from the factory. This is something that cannot be, you know, ignored.
Speaker 1:Okay, now is SIG doing their due diligence to properly address the issue and and and see to it that these types of things don't happen again. Well, the air force released a statement saying that all of the guns in that unit are being pulled. And you know, ok, yeah, like you said, pull the guns, get them back in the armory, send them back to SIG, no telling what SIG's going to do to them. I will tell you this. Now, I'm not going to say whether or not I heard this direct from this engineer or not. I'm not going to go there and look, I don't want to get anyone in hot water and I don't want to get myself no one in hot water, I don't want sick in hot water. The truth is, I'm sure there's a fix. Wink, wink, there's a fix. Anything mechanical that can have a problem can be fixed. The situation can be probably resolved.
Speaker 1:Okay, the question is at what point does someone decide? You know what? Maybe the juice isn't worth the squeeze here? You know, yeah, can they fix the issue? Yeah, they can. Does that mean that someone's going to trust the gun anymore? Are people going to have a bad taste in their mouth? I mean like, okay, the original M16s came out. Soldiers in Vietnam. Some of them were running M14s and the first guy to be handed an M16. No cleaning kit, crummy ball powder. The gun was rushed into service too quick. Now, the list of people who think that the AR-15 is not a good gun design now, all these years after Vietnam, now that list of people is probably very short. Most of those guys ain't around anymore.
Speaker 1:They're not with the living anymore or they're very old and they don't care. But was the AR, was the M16 as a gun design? Was it always perfect? It wasn't without its problems, but that's bureaucracy that caused those problems. Right Ball powder? That wasn't the correct powder. Right Twist rate issues, wrong powder, not issuing the proper cleaning kits those are logistical and leadership failures and failures in all of those sorts of things. That's not necessarily engineering failure from Cole or whoever right. Okay, the M16 was and always has been a great gun from day one. It's the logistics that failed that gun. Is that the same here, though? That gun? Is that the same? Here, though Not so much. These guns clearly have some sort of an issue.
Speaker 1:Now the SIG P365, which is the more compact micro nine version of essentially a sort of shrunk down version of the M18 and M17 series. The 365 is a very popular gun and it wasn't without its little teething issues. Early on, in fact, you and I'm at, we tested, we did a thousand round torture test on the SIG P three 65 and you know it was having that primer swipe issue where it was putting those marks on the primers and some people were experiencing some issues. We didn't experience any issues. Is that to take away from someone that did Well? No, we didn't experience any issues. Is that to take away from someone that did well? No, if someone experienced an issue, they experience an issue. But now they're saying is that the, the 365, can also potentially discharge in the same manner.
Speaker 2:If the trigger's slightly depressed and the stars align in the perfect way and it takes some kinetic force, theoretically the gun could discharge I mean, I think that there was some complicity, complicit arrogance, I would even say um in the whole deal, because sig had such a big contract with the military that it was in their favor and their benefit to ignore the issue or pass the buck to the actual firearm owner, because they know that if they were to admit fault on anything they would lose, I would even say, billions of dollars. All the military contracts, not just with the US, but a lot of these firearms companies have contracts with foreign militaries as well. You know how much money they would lose. If there was any admission of fault for anything that was issued to the military, they would file for bankruptcy that contract. Not only did they have the M17, m18 contracts, they had the ammo contracts, they had the new rifle contracts, they had the new LMG contracts, they had the new. Every single thing relied on nothing being proven. So you just kept seeing, say like past the buck along, past the buck along.
Speaker 2:First it was holsters and then it was like oh, they had lights. So the holster was like molded over the light Didn't give good trigger protection, something dropped down inside the trigger depressed the trigger. But when it comes down to it, it wasn't just SIG. It was also a lot of the trainers that were a lot of the very well-known trainers, were aware. There were some that stood up and said, hey, we're not allowing SIG P320s in our training classes. There's video of 320s going off on the firing line.
Speaker 1:That's cold-hearted man.
Speaker 2:Hey. But you have to look at it. If you're from a business aspect, if you are a private trainer and you're hosting classes, the last thing you want on the line is a discharge like hurting somebody to your left or your right. So you had the trainers that were complicit in saying, oh, this is a perfectly fine gun. Absolutely not, it's not. You had the military kind of lockstep with Sig because the military doesn't want to look bad. The military is not going to be like, oh, we should have went with Glock. Obviously they should have went with Glock. Obviously they should have went with Glock.
Speaker 2:Uh, my personal opinion cause that if the, if the deciding factor was oh, one had, um, a safety and one didn't, you can make one with a safety. It is possible. Ask California, everything over there has a safety, all right, um. But also you have the way that the recalls work. If you guys are familiar with, you know, vehicle and insurance actuaries. They look at the numbers and they say what is the break even analysis on when we do a recall, when we do a recall? So SIG is not quite at that number, I suppose, where they say, hey, the amount of money it's going to cost us legally is still less than any type of lawsuit that we have to pay out. That's what they're looking at. Is it going to cost us more to recall all of these firearms and fix them and send them back Right, or is it going to be less for us to pay out a lawsuit for someone that that dies and at this point in time it's cheaper to pay out the lawsuit than it is to recall?
Speaker 1:to rehab, yeah, to rehab everything. That's a very good point. Well, matt, I'm not gonna. I'm not gonna put the cart before the horse, because I do want to make a dedicated YouTube video on trying to induce some failures in this gun. Not to put the cart before the horse. I think I know what's causing that issue. I really do. I'm not going to say it, though, because I don't want to implicate Tune in. Well, I don't want to implicate any engineers that I've talked to. I don't want them getting in trouble and, plus, I promised them I wouldn't say anything. That's the reality. I care about relationships and there is a fix, and it's a simple fix. I think it's a simple fix. What a shame, because I really do like this gun, matt. I do this gun, matt. They're great shooters. I love this gun.
Speaker 2:They're great guns. I mean, if you can just get one that won't kill you.
Speaker 1:I know right. So I do want to give a quick moment here to give a shout out to our sponsor for today's show, and that is MyPatriotSupplycom. They are a long-term supporter of LLP. Big thanks to them for continuing to work with us for the long term. They're such a great group of people and a big thanks to them.
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Speaker 1:Getting back to Sig. So we are going to sort of divert on the show today. I mainly wanted to discuss the SIG stuff and everything like that, but we are going to talk about some other stuff in today's show. But real quick, I will say I love SIGs. It's very hard for someone to remove their bias from the situation. No one wants to be told Matt, that their gun is dangerous, especially now. Now, look, I'm just being honest here. Y'all I own sigs. Okay, nobody wants to be told their sigs a piece of crap, it's a sig.
Speaker 1:Look, sigs aren't cheap sig you make people consider sig to be kind of a high-end brand, like not you know. And when someone hears six hours like, oh yeah, sig, you know, I mean, who doesn't love their 226? What a great gun, right, the navy seals loved it and still love it, and I guarantee you, as navy seals, rather have a dusty old 226 than this now, is that to say that sig hasn't put out some doozies? They have. Sig has put out some great guns and I really hate, you know. I truly know in my heart that none of this is malicious. You know, nothing's malicious. They didn't go out of their way to try to make this happen. Obviously, no one, nobody, wants to put out a gun that's going to discharge when it's not supposed to. Maybe they, you know, went through a little too quick and maybe it's just something they didn't find in testing. Yeah, I seriously doubt that in testing, if this issue came up, that they would allow this gun to go out the door.
Speaker 2:Well, the running joke-.
Speaker 1:Maybe they just didn't know. Given the benefit I'm willing to give them benefit of the doubt that maybe they just didn't damn know.
Speaker 2:Well, you know, eric, the running joke is that you know, the testing is the public. With SIG, like that was kind of like their thing. They kind of put it out there, people like they let the general public be the, the testers, the, the beta testers, and then they come back and that started with the 365, everybody's like hey, we got to do this, we got to fix that.
Speaker 2:So it's always it's kind of been their thing for a few years now. Um, but you're right, sig is known as a premium product, like you know, very similar to like when you. There's companies out there that are in that same vein, like hk, like when you, when you like, oh what do you shoot? I shoot hk, I shoot a sig. You know, I shoot a staccato, like those are. There are certain brands that are just a little bit higher tier than other guns. Um, you know, I would even say that I've heard people um blaming the chassis system. They're like oh it's, you know, you don't see this because that's the chassis system and I would and I always this is aftermarket, but I tell you, ever seen this script?
Speaker 2:yeah, yeah, the wilson combat grips. Yeah, have you held it oh?
Speaker 1:it's not bad. Can you reach? I cannot.
Speaker 2:Damn it, man, one second, come on come on, come on, there you go.
Speaker 1:Don't worry, there's nothing in it. It is unloaded, guys. It's unloaded, dude, yep, unloaded. But, I mean, isn't that nice?
Speaker 2:It is.
Speaker 1:I mean, but SIGs they shoot, so so I want it. So I feel like I have to register this, this one opinion. So one of my viewers left a message I thought was really, really funny. Uh, they said I wonder how many penises have been shot off because of this gun? What?
Speaker 2:I mean it's a very valid question.
Speaker 1:Anyone it'll come out in, uh, in discovery, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah there's gonna be like a little column, you know, and it'll have, like you know, genitalia mutilation. Oh man, oh, how terrible.
Speaker 2:Well, to get back to that, people were blaming the chassis system, kind of what made this weapon what it is. And I always argue back I'm like that's not true, because there's other chassis systems on the market that don't have any issues. Um, my gun has a chassis system and it never had any issues with it. But god it just. I mean, it's a, it's a good pointing gun.
Speaker 1:It shoots very well very well, velocity reasonably long barrel you know, recoil impulse is very good. It's not like popping hopping all over the place, I mean and let's face, it is a really cool looking pistol too, like I think it's a very, very handsome looking gun I mean, like you know, it looks good.
Speaker 2:I don't mind it I don't mind it, I do not hate it I mean, it looks a lot better on your battle belt than a m9. You know, it's like that chonky gun of an m9, so yeah, but that's that's the thing. Like chassis is the chassis systems aren't an issue, it's, it's the gun itself but uh, I do like the the wilson combat grip module it feels good.
Speaker 1:Wilson combat also makes the 365 grip module as well, and they're. They're both great, and, and they have a few different versions. This one's the one with the full rail, but, um, they, they have one for the m18 as well. So what I'll do? Um, just as full disclosure, uh, when I do attempt to.
Speaker 1:Well, there ain't gonna be no attempt to it I think I know how to induce a failure in this gun I, within a 90 percentile protocol, I believe I can induce a failure in this gun consistently, over and over and over. In fact, I'll induce a failure and still hit the target. How about that, nice? I'll point the gun and I'll hit that. We'll see. I only put the cart before the horse, but I just will say that with this particular gun in the grip modules, I will test it with the Wilson Combat grip module as well as the OG OEM frame as well just to make sure that there's no, because if I can induce the stoppage with both the aftermarket frame and the factory frame, then they'll tell us that has nothing to do with the damn frame.
Speaker 1:So we're eliminating some variables, I'll start with the OEM. If I induce eliminating some variables, I'll start with the OEM. If I induce the stoppage, I'll put the Wilson Combat on and see if I can induce the issue. So, that way we know. In fact, I might even try to induce the issue with the Raider, the.
Speaker 2:Flux Raider.
Speaker 1:So it uses a P320. Yeah, I'll see if I can get the Raider to discharge.
Speaker 2:discharge, you're gonna get flux on my and look that's that's not a dig.
Speaker 1:Look, that's not a dig on ben or flux raider, because, you know, look, um ben, just uh signed a deal with sig to offer, you know, the, the chassis his his raider chassis and he also does them for glocks um, I love my flux raider. It's such a freaking great chat.
Speaker 2:It is awesome isn't that a great story, though? Like he made that product and it just kind of got picked up with, you know, the military and all. Like I was like, okay, that's like that rags to riches type story.
Speaker 1:Well, you know it's crazy. I I wish I would have thought about it. I would have produced the letter. I remember ben wrote me a letter early on. He sent me a Raider and was like hey, I want you to check this out. He had just mentioned hey, I've been watching your stuff. It's just so wild. I remember I met him at SHOT Show. He was just carpetbagging. He didn't have a booth. Look y'all, technically you're not supposed to carpetbag at.
Speaker 1:SHOT Show they don't allow it technically. So I'm not trying to call anyone out here, but there are people, there are vendors that will just bring a bag of crap to SHOT Show and walk around and show it to people. They're not supposed to do that. They don't allow carpet bagging. But I remember he walked up to me and showed me he's like what do you think about this?
Speaker 1:Wow, man, it's really cool and I love that type of story where someone has an idea and they see it through and they see it to fruition and it produces for them. I admire that. I love American ingenuity Nothing finer. And Dan is a great guy. I love the Raider. I think it's a fantastic setup. I have a B&T USWG with a Glock 17L and that gun's fantastic. I love it. So for glock, if I'm getting the, the pcc treatment for the glock, I kind of prefer the, the bnt for that glock 17l.
Speaker 2:I was gonna say you got the long slide and then I do the raider.
Speaker 1:but if, if, I am going to run a Sig, you better believe that that Raider is fantastic. So make no mistake, I love the platform.
Speaker 2:And real quick. Just on the carpet bagging thing, it's not that you can't afford a booth at SHOT Show, it's that the seniority doesn't allow you to get where the main people are. So it could have been been very well like, hey, you can afford a booth, but you just can't get a booth. They'll put you down in the basement, in the dungeon, where you just don't get as much foot traffic. And for those that don't know how it works, you have to kind of pay your dues in the dungeon of shot show and work your way out.
Speaker 1:But a lot of times the innovation is in the dungeon. Now, you do find some innovative stuff in the dungeon, yeah, and honestly, if, if someone was going to go to shot show and let's say they only have one day to spend, which is hard because there's a lot of ground to cover personally is it two places that you'd want to go?
Speaker 1:in my opinion and this is just, we're getting off subject a little, but I'll just it's a podcast to piggyback on what you're saying, that the law enforcement section, with all the cool grenade launchers and machine guns and less and lethal and shields and riot shields, I I always find that to be fascinating. I like that just to see what's out there.
Speaker 1:And I like the dungeon. Yeah, those are the two areas I like the most, because you see so much interesting stuff. I remember the year that I met the guys at Royal Tiger imports and they had that reloadable flashbang, which was a big deal. You know, when it was made it had this um, spring-loaded firing pins like a plunger that had a springiness to it and when it hit in a certain way it would. It was set off, yeah, and you just loaded like a shotgun blank in it. It's a reloadable flashback. I remember they sent me a video, uh, sent me the unit to do a video on, and they're like, well, we have to have it back though, because, uh, I guess they're a DD or something. There's some stipulation as to why they couldn't really have it out there that much, but I thought that was such a clever thing that they had a reloadable flashback.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like a reusable one.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what a great way to save waste versus. You know if we're talking a smoke grenade and this is a real DM-18, by, by the way, don't ask how I got it.
Speaker 2:I will never tell which is a shame that they consider that a dd, but yeah, it's a smoke grenade right. It is an inert one by the way, it's not a real functional one.
Speaker 1:But if this thing were used, I I wonder if I could just set this off in the basement right now. I mean, holy crap, dude, that would suck, that would suck. And this is yellow too. That's the worst one. But when you use a smoke grenade, that's it. I mean one use One done. But I think that's smart. If I have unit replacement costs to run a reloadable flashbang, that that's, that's next level, that's great that reminds me of a funny story.
Speaker 2:Man, we're at the mount site at stewart and you know, I remember, do you remember? It was all concrete buildings and like the, it was all like concrete driveways, and like you're running around on concrete into the buildings and we're we're practicing, you know, room clearing and clearing buildings, yeah, well, well, we had smoke grenades and I had to throw a smoke grenade to cover our movement to go from one building to another. And I remember the cadre said hey, make sure you throw the smoke grenade in the grass. And I threw it and I missed and I hit the concrete and I rolled on the concrete and I didn't realize why he wanted me to throw it in the grass because it was purple. It was a purple smoke grenade and it just like started blasting out purple smoke, which we were like okay, cool. But when it stopped there was like purple burnt smoke all over.
Speaker 2:They were so pissed.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, they were so pissed. Yeah, they're not happy. Someone's got to break the pressure washer out, somebody had to come out there and clean.
Speaker 2:It wasn't us, but somebody had to clean that. They were like super pissed. It's so funny how down at stewart.
Speaker 1:They used to always give us so much crap about the slit latrines like so when you're out in like these random rural places on on military posts, like they don't have plumbing, a lot of times they're just the, they're latrines, they're, you know, wooden, metal or sometimes concrete, usually just like a metal tin sort of building. We're just like universal shitters in there that and basically it's an over glorified outhouse.
Speaker 2:It's like a piece of wood with a with a tub underneath. Yeah Well, not even that-glorified outhouse, it's like a piece of wood with a tub underneath.
Speaker 1:Yeah Well, not even that, Just a hole in the ground. And once they get really full, they just bring the little poop truck out there and they clean them out from time to time. And I remember one time they were like yeah, don't throw.
Speaker 1:MRE bags in there and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And he said because it clogs up the little poop sucker thing and and and they were. They wanted to make it so adamant that you, you don't throw mre bags and plastic and things, because they were so worried about the little poop truck man getting his little hose clogged up that they had to, you know, spend 10 minutes talking about why you don't throw it in there. And it's just, it's just so funny you think that, like, who does that?
Speaker 1:yeah joe will oh, yeah, yeah you know, and there's no telling, and uh, anyway, not to divulge too far down this rabbit hole, but I remember, uh, I was at fort benning and this is when I was doing basic training, way back when and uh, I remember we were out at a, uh, a, I believe it was the moving target range where they have the. They have the, the little pop up, and you know, no one can ever hit the damn thing. So like, yeah, I mean you might I don't think they work man like at 100 meters?
Speaker 1:you can probably, but you know they have one is 300 yards. You know damn well we can hit those things yeah so, anyway, the moving target range, yep, and it hadn't been used in months. All right, we were the first cycle to use it after a long hiatus of it not being used just because they weren't doing rifle training at that time of the year, whatever, anyway. And I remember one of the guys opened the door to the latrine to go in and, I kid you not, this snake came out of the latrine.
Speaker 1:I swear to god, this was eight feet long I don't know none of us stopped long enough to look at at him or take. You know we couldn't take pictures and none of us had our phones on us, but but I tell you that some bitch looked like a freaking radiator hose just pumping along and and it's like he never ended. It was just he's like holy crap, that's the biggest freaking. I think it was a giant king snake, I think it was the biggest snake I've ever seen. Holy cow, and whatever he was eating in that latrine he had a lot of it, let's put it that way but he was in there chilling in the shade, I guess, and he, uh, he didn't have a care in the world that that guy opened that door. He just came out like he was invited and he didn't mind us one bit. He just slithered on out and went about his way and we all just kind of looked each other like damn and of course you know the first person to sit down yeah, dude, I'm like nobody on the toilet.
Speaker 2:No one's doing that. What else is in?
Speaker 1:there what is is going to come up and bite my ass.
Speaker 2:You know so anyway, interesting story.
Speaker 1:So we're going to roll back a little bit here. This is a part of the show where we'll always either do some show and tell or something kind of fun. So some of you may remember when we used to do our fight or flight episodes here on LOP where we would take a bunch of food items and just test everything out. We've done like hot peppers before. We've done all sorts of different alcohol and libations and things like that. You know the pepper one was fun. We did the one chip challenge. So sometimes we just eat random things and discuss it.
Speaker 2:That was not fun.
Speaker 1:No, and it's crazy, you dude. You were suffering big time and don't get me wrong, it's freaking hot, but I don't know like my scale for hot. It just didn't really bother me that much.
Speaker 2:And then we did what the ghost pepper yeah, the dried peppers, something man, I'm like I was. Yeah, I was not happy, I was not good anyway, I digress.
Speaker 1:Today we're gonna do just a super little quick mini flight. I know some of you probably heard about this Dubai chocolate. All right, everyone's talking about this Dubai chocolate. All right, what is so special about it? What is it? What does it taste like? Is it any good? One of the most notable reasons, I suppose, that people talk about this freaking chocolate Now, look, these guys aren't paying us to talk about this chocolate. I just thought it'd be interesting to you know to talk about, because it's cool, you know, and it's kind of famous right now. It's like a $15 bar of chocolate. Ok, so you're talking a $15 chocolate bar. That ain't no Hershey's. Now, it's a very expensive bar of chocolate. Is it worth the $15? Is it all that great? You know, we're going to find out. We're going to find out. It's made in Turkey. It's Turkish, it is.
Speaker 1:Yep so it's got All right. What do we see on the label there?
Speaker 2:Pistachios. Yep, it's a nice, nice gold regal. Not just a label, but like a whole case.
Speaker 1:It is fancy.
Speaker 2:It is beholden to the name of Dubai.
Speaker 1:Want to try it? Yes, crack a rope.
Speaker 2:Nice little case. This is a non-GMO, so they're trying to be all nice and fancy. Milk chocolate with kadayif and pistachio cream. We shall see you. Never had it, never had it, never had it. I remember you asked me. I was like nope, never had it. He was like all right.
Speaker 1:Full disclosure. I've had it. I didn't feel my initial reaction when I first tried it. That seems to be a thing now. People want to film their reaction. What a clever marketing scheme's like oh, let me take something really common and charge a lot of money for it, and then people will film the reaction to justify why they spent all the money on the really common item. But what we want to discern here is is it a 15 bar of chocolate?
Speaker 2:well, I mean they're doing a good job with the packaging. It came in a nice cardboard package like the nice gold foil.
Speaker 1:Yeah it's got the golden ticket vibe willy wonka definitely now what would a?
Speaker 2:turkish willy wonka look like I don't know, but his name wouldn't be willy wonka. No, it'd be. Uh well, I'm not gonna go down that road.
Speaker 1:Yeah, let's not go there. I'm gonna get in trouble.
Speaker 2:Let's not go there all right, let's to get in trouble, let's not go there All right.
Speaker 1:Let's see if I can get this thing open. I think you're going to be surprised at the consistency of this chocolate.
Speaker 2:All right, I want you to make note of that.
Speaker 1:When you open it, when you touch it for the first time, you're going to be like it's definitely like soft. So it's got like a filling, a nougat filling. Yeah, Break you off a piece son.
Speaker 2:All right, let's see here.
Speaker 1:Yeah, just tear a piece off, you're good. All right, so I'm going to take.
Speaker 2:It's broken up into four sections. Show them what it looks like. So it looks like this. So it's got four sections in it. I'm going to take the bottom section.
Speaker 1:Oh, it's got like a nice little filling in there.
Speaker 2:Here you go. I'm going to pass this over to you, Eric.
Speaker 1:There you go, I got it All right. You don't ever have to freaking. Convince me to use some chocolate, all right. All right, I'll grab the other piece. Wow, and what I always thought is so strange is the consistency of this chocolate. Yeah, it's very soft, but not melt in your hand. Yeah, like it doesn't Go ahead yeah.
Speaker 2:Okay, okay, let it marinate.
Speaker 1:Let it marinate. All right, I'm going to take a bite.
Speaker 2:Damn son. I mean not going to lie. What's your initial thoughts? It?
Speaker 2:was very good, like what are some things that come to mind it reminds me of like a baklava, like a Lebanese baklava, or like a truffle. So for me I get like the phyllo dough. It's like a phyllo dough with like nuts creamy. It has like that honey flavor and you can definitely tell they put a little bit of honey in there. It's got a good consistency. It's almost like a Rice rice crispy treat kind of crunch to it. The filling, the chocolate, is very good. It's not like super sweet though, which I like. Like I'm not a huge fan of like sweets and my it's like it's really good. It's not super sweet at all. It's got a good mouthfeel, like it still feels like it has some substance to it. It's satiating, yeah.
Speaker 1:You notice that, like it's kind of filling. I would agree you get that vibe that it's like if it were just a plain chocolate bar, it wouldn't have, it, wouldn't hit the same. Like it's kind of filling like it makes you feel full right. I wonder if that's for the pistachio.
Speaker 2:That's in there. I was gonna say like I wouldn't eat more than one piece, like one little section, like I'm gonna finish this and I would feel that's great with some coffee afterwards, like that's a very satisfying feel to it, like you don't need to eat the whole thing, could you? Yes, yes, you could yeah, do you feel like? Do you feel the urge to finish the whole thing? Not really all right, any complaints? No man, it was good, it's, it's very good. I got one more little piece left have at it.
Speaker 1:Son, don't be shy, get in there I mean it is, I mean 15.
Speaker 2:I wouldn't be mad like I would not be upset paying. I think that's worth the 15 yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So like, if you're a chocolate person and you just like you just love a bar of chocolate, it's kind of beyond that, though it's like a it's like a, a completely different vibe than just a bar of chocolate, though this is not something that you would eat in one sitting.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know it's like I'm not saying it's on the same level as like wagyu beef or kobe beef, but it's moderation is key. Like you're not gonna eat like a freaking 32 ounce you know wagyu steak. Like you're gonna eat a small you well, it is best, like moderation, to get yourself a nice little piece eat it enjoy it.
Speaker 2:Could you eat a 32 ounce wagyu? Yes, is that the normal portion size? No, um, so if I was to spend 15 on this and I ate it over the course of two or three days, like one little section, like every day, yeah, no problem.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:If I brought this home and immediately just shoved the whole fricking bar in my mouth and like 15 bucks gone in, you know 30 seconds.
Speaker 1:You don't do that.
Speaker 2:Okay, oh man, all right.
Speaker 1:No, any complaints. I would say my initial reaction. It's very good chocolate I got.
Speaker 1:I got no problem with it as a delicacy um I kind of feel like I would love to have this, like when I'm out hiking or something. You know. Have a little piece of it. Just it's very satiating. Even a small piece is very satiating. But the problem is, you know, dang well, if it's not going to travel, well, oh no, it's soft. You know it's going to get all ooey gooey from the heat. So I mean, that's really any chocolate. I'm not saying this is it makes this, this chocolate, unique to melting? But it does have that melty sort of vibe to it, I mean, even here at room temperature it's already a little soft and gooey.
Speaker 1:I would imagine a slight raise in the temperature would probably this will not travel very well yeah no, I agree. That would be really. My literally only complaint is that I can't take it with me when I hike or something. But beyond that, damn if it isn't good.
Speaker 2:It is very good and I'm glad this was my first shot, my first time eating dubai chocolate with you guys, our, our listeners and our viewers. It's kind of a meme.
Speaker 1:Like you know, everyone's all about it. So, uh, before we get back into the show on, uh, the intended subject matter, I do want to give a a quick shout out to the new merch uh store that we've got set up, based and Mad. I mentioned it in last week's episode but I'll just kind of mention it. The based part is hey, we know what it means to be based. You've probably seen the magnet back here We've got cups, we've got hats, we've got all kinds of shirts. Here we've got the Rhodesian Army um army ad, which is a pretty cool there and uh, based in mad it's.
Speaker 1:It's kind of a lifestyle brand. It's. It's a lifestyle brand for people who are absolutely fed up with the crap and uh and have a, you know, unapologetic view of freedom and their own intuition and, you know, seeking the truth and all things that they see in life. So you know it's not an unknown thing that I've been very vocal on a lot of different subjects and you know it's been very tough. I've been canceled, I've been dragged through the mud. You know people try to censor me and cancel me left and right. So I really came up with this brand overall as a way for people to show their support for people that aren't afraid to draw outside the lines, and that's really what it would be about. So pick you up a mug, a hat, a shirt, show your support, and it's a good way to support my efforts and get something cool in the process. So check it out, bastinmadcom. Get yourself a Based in Mad mug. Show everybody how damn based in mad you are.
Speaker 2:Send in the pictures. You may wind up on the show.
Speaker 1:Send me a picture and you might wind up on the freaking show. Make it as offensive as possible. We aim to offend. We want to make borderline unwearable t-shirts, but only borderline. I promise you can still wear them and maybe you won't get an altercation with somebody at the gas station.
Speaker 1:But, hey, if you do, maybe that's your vibe, you know that's fine too, but anyway. So let's talk a little bit. I know we really spent a lot of time talking about Sig. We've got a few minutes left in the show. I kind of want to get back to that subject for a minute. I want to make it clear that I would never try to go out of my way to talk crap about a company. I mean, if you look at Sig holistically over everything they've ever made and judge a company on that, okay, yeah, a fluke of a product Now, granted, a hell of a fluke, because that's a very big mistake. But I think overall, holistically, they've put out some very good products over the years. I have no problem with SIG. I know it's sort of the popular thing to do is to talk trash about SIG, because you know that's what the Internet does when there's blood in the water. The Second Amendment community loves to circle like sharks and they love that blood in the water.
Speaker 2:They do. Unfortunately, the Second Amendment community loves to circle like sharks and they love that blood in the water and they love that drama and they love it all.
Speaker 1:Now, are there merited reasons for that blood to be in the water? There are, and they're going to have to come to terms with how they're going to sort out that PR issue on their point, whether it's going to be correcting the pistols, paying out lawsuits or whatever in between. It could be any number of solutions that they're going to have to come up with. Let's get away from that for a moment and just talk a little bit about quality control and QC in the 2A community or in the gun world, let's just say the manufacturing world as it pertains to firearms. Have there been other situations where QC has been, let's just say, not a major issue, but an issue, a point of contention that must be considered? Now I'm not trying to shine the light towards another company just to take the heat off SIG. I'm just saying there are situations like the Hudson. Okay, the Hudson 9,. All right, daniel Defense bought the Hudson and now they make you know they essentially have their version of that gun that Daniel Defense has their own pistol now, yep, it's a modified version of the Hudson. What do they do? They took the known issues with the Hudson and they fixed it right, the new Daniels are great.
Speaker 1:Okay, it is not even really the same gun anymore. I mean, it's a shadow of what it used to be. But the old Hudson had some barrel issues and a few teething problems. The original engineer of the gun was a brilliant guy. He built a really cool gun and I think people really wanted to like it and they wanted to support this guy because he was a veteran. Again, I have never made a video where I took a crap on the Hudson, even though the guns were giving some issues, primarily really bad accuracy. They were having some accuracy issues, not so much issue of functionality. They were perfectly functional, just wasn't quite there. There were just a few things that needed some tweaking and, for whatever way, shape or form, maybe the original engineer just was not prepared to fix the problems. I'm not going to get into that. I don't not even. That's above my pay grade.
Speaker 2:Point is.
Speaker 1:Marty came in, made him an offer and now it's now it's a Daniel Defense product. What do you think he's going to do with it? He's going to go through and pick it apart with a fine tooth comb. He's going to fix the issues and it's going to be something worthy of the annual defense name. You know, again, are there issues where products have failed to deliver? There are the Hudson, I mean. That's one example, you know. I'm sure I can think of some others, you know, if you think about long enough, I mean.
Speaker 2:One that comes to mind is Remington. They had the issue with the Remington 700 actions and that was a big thing with the military. That was a big thing with the military, because all of their M24 sniper rifles were basically firing. Think about how many.
Speaker 1:Remington 700s have been made over the years. Think about how long the Remington 700 has been a model designation for Remington A very long time. It's not like it's anything new that gun has been around model designation for. Remington.
Speaker 2:A very long time it's not like it's anything new.
Speaker 1:That gun has been around a long time in various ways, shapes or forms. So you have some 700s that got out and have an issue discharging or something. Does that mean that Remington gets a pass? I mean, if they corrected the issue, sure. I mean, how many Remington 700s are perfectly functional 50 years later and have never had a problem never will versus the ones that actually made it out that, okay, had a SEER engagement problem or it could be an issue with the stock clearance. Maybe they used someone's aftermarket stock and didn't realize that there was something, you know, not coming into contact. Now they should know these things before they send the gun out the door. But how do we know that there wasn't some minor fitment issue that, oh, it was pushing on the sear or it was doing this or doing so? There's always going to be, like you know, when a company partners OEM with another company, you know, like, for instance, when we look at Ben with the Flux Raider and then being able to buy a Flux Raider SIG package directly from SIG, right, that means that SIG is putting their name on his product and he's putting SIG's name on his product, that they are saying, hey, our products are one in the same Right.
Speaker 1:Yes, on an OEM level, companies will purchase components from a major brand and then integrate them into their guns. Ruger's done it. You could buy the ATI stock Ruger 1022s direct from Ruger. They take the ATI stock, they install Ruger 1022 in it boom, they send it out the door. It goes to the retailer. This makes the process easier. A customer doesn't have to buy aftermarket stock. They can simply buy Ruger 1022 with an ATI stock already installed. Same thing with Magpul. Right, ruger has a 1022 Magpul kit. You buy the Magpul 1022 ready to go directly from them are not a mysterious, unknown thing. They happen all the time. There are plenty of situations where companies will integrate the products of other companies into their product at an OEM level where, hey, you're buying it from us, you're buying it direct from us and it has whatever widget installed. And hey, we're saying that this is a quality component that we're willing to put our name on, just like they're willing to partner with us. So there's a lot of strategic partnerships that go on in that type of regard.
Speaker 2:That's a good example. Sometimes it can not work out that well, like in this particular case. You know, I know that Flux doesn't have any issues, but being attached to the SIG name now might raise some eyebrows for people in the future. If they're cause, you can buy just the you can buy. I don't know about the Raider, but you can buy a Flux product on its own. I don't know if you can buy a Raider on its own.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you can buy just the, just the Raider.
Speaker 2:Okay, I didn't know if there was like a backlog of you know a wait list, cause I know for a long time he had a wait list for for a couple of his products.
Speaker 1:So I do want to give a shout out as well to our friends at Dark Mountain Arms. So I don't know if you're familiar with Dark Mountain.
Speaker 2:Not off the top of my head.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they make these like crazy little compact bolt action pistols. Okay. That are like kind of like a survival rifle. Okay, right, so they have one in 5.7 by 28 and they have one in 22. Now they're, from what I hear, they're working on one in 45 acp. So the idea is you could have like a suppressed 45 acp little compact bolt action rifle, that sort of thing, you know. But they make these little like compact survival uh guns right and um, I just think that's an innovative thing you know, what I mean.
Speaker 1:I just want to I an innovative thing. You know what I mean. I just want to. I want to mention that. You know. It seems that there's so much lack of innovation in the firearms world and sometimes we're jaded that we throw so much shade against a product like the H9, right, the Hudson, go back to the Hudson. Everyone throws so much shade on it because it didn't work the way that they really wanted it to out the gate. Hello, are you designing anything new? I don't see you making anything new. Everyone just wants to copy everybody else's stuff. Ruger just made a copy of the Glock. Essentially, everybody did that. Yeah.
Speaker 2:That Gen 3?
Speaker 1:No one's got any right to complain about something working or not working when they're not the ones with putting the blood, sweat and tears and putting in the sweat equity to make something new?
Speaker 2:Well, that, and a lot of people don't realize how difficult it is to design or create something. Because I remember there was this project that we had to do when I was in school and it was a system of levers. So you had like six or seven levers that you had to pull, but you had to pull them in a certain order to create, to, to complete the, the project, complete the puzzle, and every time you would pull one, something it would cause a reaction. There was never a point in time where you pulled a lever to fix something that something else didn't change. So imagine the guy that's designing the H9, like the engineer, every time he tried to fix something, something else would change.
Speaker 2:That's just the nature of the beast, especially when you're creating something, when're concepting something, something as simple as oh, I need to create a little bit of clearance for the barrel, so it's not like right up against the, the frame. I'm not like harmonics are, I'm messing up the harmonics. You change that one little thing, something else changes, and now you've created another problem. So is this this ever ongoing issue of like pulling levers and other levers, moving until you find that perfect, that perfect setting where everything works?
Speaker 2:It is difficult, um, especially if you're a smaller company and you don't have, you know, millions of dollars to throw at a project, yeah, and you don't have the time. Like you're invested, like that's another thing. You, you're in a lot of these smaller companies, they've mortgaged their house, they've taken out loans. Like I don't want to say, oh, you're on a time crunch, but at the same time, you don't have you know years to figure this out like you need it now. So, honestly, him being bought out by marty probably the best thing, the best thing that ever happened to him.
Speaker 1:He really did have a lot at stake with that. And uh, you know, hey, I I have nothing but respect for people who who risk at all, cause I mean that that's really what makes our country as beautiful place as it is that you can, that you can put all the chips on the table when you want to, that you can have a dream, and you can. You can chase it. And I'll just end today's show. My final thoughts for the show would be today that anyone can make one thing work. Well, it's it's. It's one thing to prototype something and have it work precisely the way you want it, and it's another thing to take that item and put it into mass production and produce it. Manufacturing and prototyping are two different things. And I think where we begin to see a little bit of issue and listen, I'm, I am never going to say a damn word negative about George Kellgren. Okay, I love Kel-Tec. I love.
Speaker 1:Kel-Tec's guns.
Speaker 1:So, quirky, but they have had their share of teething issues over the years. Now they always figure it out hey, all good. But he is such a brilliant guy and everything is so new and groundbreaking that, of course, when you're making so many new things that literally just came out of that brilliant head of his, of course there's going to be some room for kind of playing around to get it right. So, um, I think sometimes they'll, they'll throw things into production and it's like you know, maybe a little little little tweak or two might be necessary. You know, yeah, but, um, I will tell you I, um, I will tell you I love their gun designs.
Speaker 2:They're very they really do. Yeah, I mean you want to talk about-.
Speaker 1:He's a brilliant guy.
Speaker 2:The groundbreaking design, like the shotguns, the Kel-Tecs yeah, I mean, when those things first hit the market, man, there was nothing on the market like that, just the design itself drew people to it. I know, did they function 100 percent of the time?
Speaker 1:when they first came out, they had their teething issues, like you said, like all caltechs yeah, my, um, my og, ksg, my, I have an early ksg or like one of the first 5 000 or whatever that was put out works fine, no problem, out of it that's what made mini shells famous, if it wasn't for the.
Speaker 2:KSG. Nobody would give a damn about mini shells, that's true, that's very true. But as soon as you say I can hold like 30 mini shells in this one shotgun, all of a sudden everybody loses their minds. Yeah, and then what?
Speaker 1:did Mossberg do? They released the 590S, Exactly that can shoot mini shells, and first it was a conversion adapter that allowed the mini shells to function in the pump action. Then they just made it a thing Like well, let's just make all the 590s compatible with mini shells, Because, hey, you can increase the capacity and you know the slugs at close range, they still hit pretty hard. Yeah, even though it's not a full power slug, it's still powerful enough I mean, I can, you, can you be?
Speaker 2:can you imagine being the guy at aguila and like, overnight, you're like what in the hell? Why are so many people buying these, like boxes and boxes of these mini shells that have been sitting here on this shelf for probably 10 years? And all of a sudden, you sold an entire warehouse full of mini shells. Right, and that's why. Oh yeah, ksg was like let's do it yeah, I mean, why not?
Speaker 1:so you can't make an omelet, boys and girls, without cracking a few eggs. Now, all, right, now, that's one egg to crack, right there, now, I you know, we'll see how it all plays out. I just I want to make it clear that I admire Suga as a company. I appreciate the innovation. And here's the thing Like I said, you can't make an omelet without cracking some eggs. Well, guess what? You know, you're going to make a new product, right, a new rifle, a new machine gun, like they did that belt fed, they did that, that, that new rifle, that the military's issuing the new cartridge right what 277?
Speaker 1:fury whatever they call that thing right, I'm a little behind on some of that stuff. I follow it enough to know. But you know, yeah, you're gonna make something new, you're gonna innovate and design something. It's gonna come with some teething problems here and there, you know, and if you, if nothing is ventured, nothing is gained. I just hope we can learn something from the process and make a better product. And if it's one thing that I know about SIG is they're going to get to the bottom of the issue and they're going to fix it, bottom line. Now, how they apply that and how it happens, how it pans out, is yet to be seen, but I know they're going to fix it, I know they have the capability to fix it, I know they have the expertise to fix it and, dare I say, they have the solution for this gun already. Hear me.
Speaker 2:But at the same time, I don't think it should come at the cost of anybody's life or livelihood or anything and cost of anybody's life or livelihood or anything, and that that is the absolute, you know, crusher of of the situation is that it had to get this far. Yeah, for, dare I say, the military to even acknowledge it, because, after everything that happened, the military, it took someone dying for them to pull them off, to remove them from service, just for that unit.
Speaker 2:Not even like, not even yeah military like military wide, imagine, that fiasco yeah so unfortunate um as it is, and yeah hopefully, hopefully that family gets gets taken care of man, I sure hope yeah, that'll be a real disaster right there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I really hope they get taken care of and I hope that whatever issue is underlying with these guns, that it's solved quickly.
Speaker 1:Because you know we got our men and women have to have a way to protect themselves. Yep, personally, I would have went with the Glock. That's just me. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. People say what they want about Glocks. People accuse me of being a Glock fanboy. People accuse me of being some paid show for Glock, like that. The truth is I know what I can, like anything I want. Okay, I don't have to have someone's permission to say tell me what my opinion is. My opinion is based on experience. Okay, tell me what my opinion is. My opinion is based on experience. Okay, my experience. My opinions are based on what I've seen and and and acknowledged and witnessed. And I can count on one hand the entire time I've ever ran Glocks, dozens and dozens of Glocks over the years. I can count on one hand the amount of stoppages I've seen. I believe it. They're just, they work. And I'll tell you what. Those mnps. I love my. I love my smith and wesson mmp.
Speaker 1:it's such a fantastic gun, one of the best guns I ever had I would absolutely feel 110 confident protecting my life, in the moment of life and death, with an M&P 100%, 100%, this gun right here. Son, let me tell you something. This Performance Center 9L.
Speaker 2:Look out, man.
Speaker 1:Oh no, dude, that's a shooter, this is a freaking great gun and you know, dare I say, matt, I almost would prefer this to my Glock.
Speaker 2:I mean, you got ports. It was magna ported. It's a good gun man. This is a fantastic pistol, One of the best guns I've shot with.
Speaker 1:People who say what they want. If I say that a Glock is good, if I say an M&P is good, it's because I own the damn thing. I've used it for years. It's not just some conjecture.
Speaker 2:But at the same time, Smith Wesson has had their issues with maybe not with their polymer guns, but I know they had their issues with the wheel guns and that's something they worked out as well. They were just you know they they fixed it. That wasn't something they kind of like swept under the rug. It was like, hey, we have some issues, let's fix it.
Speaker 1:And that was it I think some of the first gen. Um, what is that? Uh like that ksg copy, more or less, that smith and wesson made. Uh forget what they call that shotgun. They had some initial little teething issues with that gun. Of course, smith and Wesson's highly capable company, yep.
Speaker 2:Boom.
Speaker 1:Very quick and easy to fix the issue and then move on with life, you know.
Speaker 2:But they also are really easy to work with, with sending stuff back, like if you have an issue, like they take care of it.
Speaker 1:Smith and Wesson's customer service, yep, second to none. They are fantastic in every way when it comes to taking care of their customers and I must say I've had the same experience with SIG. Anytime I've had a problem with a SIG, turnarounds really quick. Had a problem with a CZ one time Fast turnaround, nice. I got well taken care of by CZ. I got well taken care of by S. I got well taken care of by sig.
Speaker 2:Uh, never had to send anything back glock. Yeah, I mean, let's just call it what it is.
Speaker 1:I never had to send a glock back. I had a mossberg one time that I had a problem with a 590 a1 that uh, that was having some major issues sent it back and they had it back to me in a week really fast turnaround. Mossberg always take care of me. So a good company. There's a good mainstream company. They're going to be legit. They're going to handle it. If there's a problem, you better believe they want to fix that problem.
Speaker 1:They do not want a faulty gun, especially Daniel Defense. If you talk to Marty he'll say oh yeah, I'd rather give him a whole new gun than have a Daniel Fins product out there that has a problem. They'll just replace the gun If it's that bad. Of course they're going to do an internal review and figure out what the problem is. But if you think they're going to put a bad gun back out, no way. They'd rather replace the gun than do that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, man, I know we're talking about firearm OEMs, but I mean, I had the great experience with MeproLite, just with one of their red dots, man, yeah, like they take care of it. Way out of warranty. Way out of warranty If they made it right. Oh yeah, 100% Because think about it.
Speaker 1:Do they really want someone out there trashing their product?
Speaker 2:Yeah, what is your reputation worth to you?
Speaker 1:I mean, if you're making a $400 red dot, what does it really cost you to just replace the damn red dot, even if it's out of warranty? I mean, that ounce of prevention prevents a pound of mishap. And guess what? If you ever decide to buy another Meprolite, it won't be an issue of oh well, I don't know if I can trust it. Well, if they make it right, no matter what, who cares if you can trust it or not? If price is a consideration, if the warranty is good, give it a chance. What do you have to really lose? That's why I don't understand why people give Olight such a hard time. I know that I've been at the center of a lot of controversy regarding Olight because of the amount of content that I've made for Olight in the past. That's fine, but again, I always sort of challenge people like well, if the lights are so bad, why do they warranty them in the way they do? If you have a problem, they're going to fix it, right.
Speaker 2:What's the big deal? How are they still in existence, right? Why are they still around? Yeah, how are they still around. How are they still in existence, right? Why are they still around? I mean, yeah, how are they still around? How are they?
Speaker 1:still operating. I don't understand what the controversy is. If it's a product that's priced reasonably and it's got a good warranty, let them compete. As far as I'm concerned, I don't see any American-made flashlight manufacturers reaching out to me and telling me hey, beat my light up, do this, do that. They're like no way.
Speaker 2:They don't care. Think about how many have come and gone.
Speaker 1:I'm not saying they're not good good lights. I mean, I love my surefires. You know all, all of my, all of my sort of fighting rifles and life and Liberty guns. Yeah, I run six, 40 dual fuels on everything. I love surefire. Is that to say that I haven't had an issue with a surefire end cap going out or a bad switch Sometimes? Does it change my opinion of surefire? Well, if I can't get anyone on the phone and remedy the issue, it's actually cheaper for me to just go buy a new freaking switch and not even bother trying to go to them for anything. So whose company's better? Is Olight really that bad if they actually respond and just handle the problem, versus you have to go through this glowing bureaucracy at surefire and then still not even get an answer. What's your time really worth to you at that point? It's almost cheaper to just buy the freaking switch myself and just change it out and throw the old one away and not even bother trying to even contact him for anything.
Speaker 2:Man surefire brings back memories. Well, I mean, look I.
Speaker 1:I love surefire lights. You know it's funny, chad. Always you tell me the story about his little backup. You know, surefire backup. I always tell the story. I think it's so funny and and I know we're going way over on time, but that that's all right, it's our show, we can do it. Yeah, our show. We'll end on this note. But uh, he lost his backup, couldn't find it. You know, a little bitty light one day and there's this one area where you know the water kind of puddles up a lot and he, I guess, dropped it in a puddle of water. He's mowing grass and of course the water had already dried up and all he's mowing the grass and he heard a clang, just looked over and noticed, oh, there's my backup. He dropped it out of his pocket when he was mowing and this was two or three weeks it took him weeks of that thing laying out in the yard.
Speaker 1:He finally found it, but you better believe it still worked after being submerged and out in the weather and getting hit by a lawnmower. So it's like you know, say what you want, but that's a fantastic light, yeah. And it's an industry standard. For a reason it's a good light.
Speaker 2:Probably he was reaching into his pocket to get his cell phone pulled out.
Speaker 1:I mean, it happens, it happens. But I think we dove into some interesting territory on this show and we have a lot more on the way. Y'all, I really appreciate you bearing with us here. I'd love to kind of go off the rails and just discuss lots of different things. I love the story-driving sort of idea of podcasts, like how you can just really allow it to go any direction you want, and I enjoy that I enjoy it too and I think our listeners enjoy it.
Speaker 2:There's there's a very small uh you know group that don't, I guess, quite understand the concept of a podcast, and but the majority of you guys thank you so much you guys completely get it and understand what a podcast is. It is just a story-driven conversation.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, use the chapter markers if you don't, yeah, we do have chapter markers, y'all, so you can drop around, slide around wherever you want. Thanks so much for tuning in Many more on the way. Remember you can find us on Stitcher, spotify, apple Podcasts anywhere that podcasts are found. Also on IRAC Veteran 8888, you can find us if you want to see our smiling mugs in video form. Here we are for your amusement and perhaps scrutiny.
Speaker 1:Yes, whatever you want to do there, but we are on YouTube as well, so thanks so much for tuning in Many more podcasts on the way. We'll see you guys next week Every Monday, 9 o'clock, theoretically, if I remember to upload the show on time, but yeah we post every Monday, 9 am Eastern Standard.
Speaker 1:Have a good one. Bye everybody. Thanks for listening to Life, liberty and Pursuit. If you enjoyed the show, be sure to subscribe on Apple Podcasts, spotify and anywhere else podcasts are found. Be sure to leave us a five-star review. We'd really appreciate that you can support us over on Ballistic Inc by picking yourself up some merch and remember, guys, dangerous freedom. Have a good one.